After a particularly grueling and long week, it was really nice to get back home for a weekend of relaxation. This morning as I was reading the NY Times and enjoying coffee in my back yard, I realized there were a number of related topics and discussions that occurred this week in the small corner of the world we call photography that is then further segmented by those that have an interest in all things Pentax. So consider this an "op ed" post or collection of thoughts and comments that I will post throughout the weekend. There won't be any order to the comments that I add, and there's no significance to the order in which I post these snippets.
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Having seen a lot of less than complimentary things said about me in the past, which I understand is part of being open and approachable on the internet, I had to laugh this morning when I read this comment by GnusMas on pentaxforums that was in response to a heated exchange on who knew more about a certain upcoming model from Pentax..."Ahh its OK maybe next year you to can buddy up to Ned at the PMA and try to get your very own NDA . I suggest you start building your tomato shot portfolio I hear that's one way into NED's heart. lol." I think the whole point about my love of tomatoes stems from the realization that what tends to typify many Pentax shooters is that they have a pretty balanced life wherein photography is only one of their passions and pursuits. I think we tend to harbor a higher percentage of independent minded shooters who enjoy the pursuit of photography first and are less obsessed with their gear. So GnusMas is right, the way to my heart is to show a balance of passion for life and make sure your love of photography is not at the expense of other priorities including nuturing the relationship with your family and close friends.
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The photo for this post was taken with the K20D and DA15 lens, shot in RAW and processed in-camera to produce a "soft" jpeg.
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Regarding the tempest on pentaxforums about whether Rice High knows more about the upcoming K-model than Yvon Borque, consider this. Just like any other company in high-tech, we have a number of journalists that represent traditional print as well as web, who have signed NDA's and are at various stages of evaluating a new product offering. We've had long standing relationships with these folks, and this is critical in making sure information about a new product is available at the time of announcement. None of this is possible without a great sense of trust by both parties. Therefore, it's a reality that while some people will have knowledge prior to an announce dates, others will have to speculate and I guess that's fine in this new cyber world where rumors tend to create so much buzz that the actual announcement almost becomes a letdown.
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I've never met him, but quite a few of you should cut RiceHigh some slack. I don't always agree with what he says, but he has every right to post his thoughts. He has strong opinions, and is passionate about what he does. Last time I checked, there's no restriction on having a point of view either in print or on-line.
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Mike Johnston had some great things to say about buying a camera in his post this week by not selecting the "T.O.P. Ten Recommended Cameras: #3". His conclusion was "all of these cameras are truly excellent devices that will serve any thoughtful and hardworking photographer very, very well—very well indeed. Pick one and be done." If you haven't read this post, check it out...
T.O.P Ten Recommended Cameras:
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Square sensor and full frame??? Executives in Japan have said we'll release a model this summer that is more advanced than the K20D, and that we have re-started development of the 645D which is expected to be released in 2010. When asked about full frame (meaning 35mm camera body), we commented this would be very difficult in the near future. To those that continue to postulate or argue that the new camera better be full frame, ask yourself what lenses are you planning to use on this hypothetical new full frame body?
As I received a few comments on this, let me clarify my tongue-in-cheek comment. Anyone that is currently using a full frame sensor 35mm camera knows that they exact a high price in terms of the lenses that perform acceptably. Many lenses originally designed for film fall short in terms of distortion control and edge-to-edge sharpness when used with a full frame sensor. I have a good friend who currently shoots high-end weddings in Southern California with a 5D. While he loves the fact he can now use his wide angle lenses, he has quite a few lenses he's shot with for years that he can no longer use.
In our case, if we developed a full frame camera, it's likely that very few of our recent DA lenses (those designed for APS-C) would be able to properly fill the viewing area of this new sensor. And although we have some wonderful FA lenses, like my favorite FA 31mm Limited, I'm not sure even this lens would be up to the optical challenge.
I know that our engineers have studied these issues and would probably not agree totally with my simplistic explanation. However, I think it's important to understand that going to a full frame sensor means not only having to design a brand new camera from ground up, but likely a new line of lenses that meet the more demanding optical requirements.
It's clear that there is a place for full frame cameras, but it currently is a small part of the overall SLR market. Due to the total cost of ownership and increased demands shooting with full frame images, the majority of cameras sold will still use APS-C, 4/3rds type sensors.
Despite some of our desires to always want newer, faster, better technology, I'm not sure that many of us would see a dramatic improvement in our photography if we were given a full frame sensor camera. Personally, I think we've hit the sweet spot with APS-C sensor cameras today. 12-15 megapixels is more than adequate for even your most demanding assignments, we've got far better control of noise, frame rates and processing speeds are sufficient for the majority of work advanced or serious photographers need and all of this is available at very reasonable price points, regardless of your choice of brand.
In closing this train of thought, the whole full frame debate reminds me of the sometimes wine-induced arguments I have with a buddy of mine over the performance of our 5 series BMW's. I always end these discussions by saying if he really, really demands/needs/desires higher performance then shut up and buy an M5 or 7 series. As you'd expect, he's still shooting...uh I mean driving his beautiful 5 series bimmer.
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As RiceHigh aptly points out, any legacy lens would work on a 35mm full frame camera. There's no question about this, the real concern is about the image quality produced by these lens.
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86 comments:
Very well put Ned :)
or should I say placed..
NED I'm glad my comments amused you things can get to heated in those forums. Anyways Nice picture love the jacuzzi and the jacuzzi's little buddy. Very slick. Oh by the way my wife has planted some tomatoes this year count on me posting some shots. :)
Cheers
Adam
Great to read your comment about RiceHigh Ned, I constantly fail to understand how he manages to stir passions he does on so many Pentax related fora. I've argued with him in the past but I've also agreed, you'd think Pentax was a religion to some ;-)
Careful, Ned--looks like you left a camera outside, there. You wouldn't want it falling into the water, especially if it were an early production prototype or something...
Hi Ned,
That was very well said. I don't post in the forums like I used to because I don't want to get involved in a heated exchange.
Howerver, unlike " GnusMas " I am privi to NDA info and I did meet you at PMA last year. I was working the booth for Pentax Canada. I loved the BobCarMedia, and tried to convince Gary to get one for Canada.
Anyway, I think you are doing amazing things for Pentax. ( not brown-nozing - just stating the obvious ).
Best Regards,
Info_Man --> Dan
Hey Ned I think Pentax Imaging USA should press the donation button at pentaxforums.com. I have never seen such interest in Pentax in my life. With a thread with over 1000 posts about this new camera (K7?). Pentax is getting a lot of free hype (: I am getting questions from CanIkon friends about it.. I just say I am under an NDA..lol. If I say anything the K mount Gods will get angry and strike me down with a Pentax 67II ):
Ned, I must say that new K-7 is so cool,
especially rear control (those, where color LCD is)
:)
It's really hard to resist a temptation, to take it in bed. I really want to upgrade my K10D to K-7.
"To those that continue to postulate or argue that the new camera better be full frame, ask yourself what lenses are you planning to use on this hypothetical new full frame body?"
My FA Limiteds?
Personally, I don't need full-frame. I'm happy with APS-C.
Pleasure to meet you, Ned. I've been a Pentaxian and a PDMLer since 2002. Pentax is very cool in great many aspects and meanings of the word 'cool'.
As for your post and question. I think that FA Limited lenses would work well on full frame DSLR. A number of people used these lenses on full frame Canon bodies and got very good results indeed. Granted, these are older lenses (by modern measure) but trying to rephrase a little that quote from TOP - "pick up any lens and use it; it will shoot straight". Pentax has produced number of truly excellent prime and zoom lenses during the film era. Not long ago you yourself posted some pictures shot with FA 31 Limited.
But full frame or not, the main thing is that Pentax seems to be listening to its customers and steadily but surely moving forward.
Hello.
You ask what lenses I will use in FF? I have a manual fix A and M series and they have me much pleasure to work. I hope that the new chamber will have full support of M series, and not through the stupid green button "masterpiece".
Hehe, this is a very good post, Ned. So glad that you wrote your view here and this is very good read from user perspective.
Now a lot of guest visitors are going to google the word "Ricehigh".
I do not mind that pentax is not going to implement FF sensor at all. I like pentax brand for non-FF camera body with its selection of excellent primes :)
Your image is very well composed by the way
Hello Ned,
Nice to hear from regarding this teasers. Nicely said. Also, anybody can have something of information regarding news on a new gear. If i really wanted to know i'll just ask my relatives back in cebu, mactan were the factory of the Pentax bodies are made. But it will spoil the fun and it's like cheating. =)
That's a K7 beside the jacuzzi. One of the snippets your talking about.
Take care.
regards,
Kenneth
Hi Ned I quick question. I notice you shoot alot of weddings. My partner and I are going to be shooting our first wedding next month.I was wondering what lenses you prefer to use. I use the 50-135mm when I foof at corporate events. I'm wondering for wide angle what you would recommend. Anyways thnx for time
Adam
Well, I think I should make a reply here.
First of all, I think it is totally worthless to argue whether I could know more about the new K-7 than any Pentax officials and agencies. Without any doubts, I know less but only some little of those straight and hard facts.
However, on the other hand, whether I could tell more publicly would be another thing. And of course, I have nothing to be binded.
As for different people and different blogs, I do think that Ned, you, is a nice and open-minded person, as I have been writing at my blog for times about my observations and impressions on your goodself. I do trust much my own eyes and so does for some others whom I found that their integrity are in question.
As for the Full Frame DSLR body, the lenses are all there - the numerous thousands of good old film K-mount glass. I do hope Pentax can make one in the coming days soonest - but of course the K-7 is a good step for Pentax to climb upstairs to a higher market segment, before the FF day of Pentax comes.
The truth is people will not stop buying new lenses just because they have gone Full Frame. In fact, even I have already successfully adopted most of my Pentax (AF) film lenses for using on my Canon 5D, I am still very interested to purchase new lenses and accessories for the *system* from time to time, currently I am looking at the EF17-40/4L and the EF35/2 prime.
So, what does it tell? A FF body will not only be able to retain old customer base, which is huge, it does open up many new business opportunities for selling new lenses and system products.
And yes, there are many and many other important persons and things in life for us to take care of and care about, not only photography and gear, which are just hobbies afterall - family members, friends, health, career (not just money!) and other hobbies and so on..
Last but not least, hope you well for the days to come and wish Pentax a big success this time with the new K-7! See you ~
Thanks for a good read. I have nothing of big interest to add to the discussion other then that I think Pentax future seems very interesting.
Ned, a pitty you didn't use the DA*200 when you shot that jacuzzi...
Good post Ned. My first DSLR was my K100D and I vowed that I would not upgrade until I could consistently out-shoot my gear. Well, vows are made to be broken I guess because the siren song of the K10D with battery grip finally got to me after a couple of years of trying.
The K10D is so much nicer to shoot, primarily because of the external controls, but I don't know that I could clearly demonstrate that it makes a better picture than the K100D by looking at the prints in my portfolio.
I shoot for a paycheck more often now but no matter how good I get when I upgrade next it probably won't be to a full frame camera, unless it's the only place I can find the features I really need.
If I can find it I will upgrade to a weather sealed body, with lightning fast auto focus, 1/500 or higher flash synch, 50 or even 25 ISO to cut down my ND filter usage, 5 frames per second, low noise at high ISO... and oh yea, the cheapest way I can get my hands on those features wins.
Until that camera hits the market, at my price point, my K10D is probably stuck with me, no matter how much it dreams of upgrading to a more advanced photographer.
I'd love to see Pentax make it into the hands of more younger photographers,
When I head to falmouth uni next year in sept they have all these silly shows where the big two and hasseblad too show there gear i think nikon has a deal too with the uni. I want to show people pentax make gear that is brilliant quality and on par with the others, lightweight including the lenses and make a point about the limited series and that it's a tad cheaper so you can buy some more lenses. I think many of the other students will catch on if you show them, which is all about to happen soon I hope. I am constantly asked what camera I have and how much it costs.. Now I wonder if we'll see a pro service updated or even put in place in the UK with the release of the K-7 that'd be the icing on the cake...
I have been in the situation of having to defend you from ridiculous attacks on Pentax Forums. I am glad to see you put things in perspective here.
Regarding FF, I am sure that very few people who carp on about it actually need it or would take better pictures if they had it. Otherwise they'd be shooting FF already with one of the other manufacturers. It's less than 4% of the market IIRC, but from the noise generated you'd think it's 96%.
As far as ridiculous claims about new sensor sizes and so on, I have done my best to inject a little reasonable analysis with articles like Stop the Rumors! All Your Pentax Questions Answered. Not that they do much good!
I'm excited... Thanks for fueling the fire.
What's a Pentax?
Hello, I've been thinking about investing and working with a new system to document the construction of the Seattle Tunnel and would be very interested in talking with you/Pentax about this project. Regarding the DNG format, multi-exposure and grid screen or an on-demand grid overlay feature, big plus features in my work. Thank you. Gary
I'm excited about the new camera. Started on a K1000 in 1977, used KX, ME Super, Super Program, P3N...my recent professional turn to archaeology in the Holy Land has made me a passionate Pentax K10D, then K20D devotee, with thousands of shots used in my teaching, PR efforts for excavations, and other venues.
At 54, I can say every Pentax I have owned was like a teacher from whom I learned more about my world and how to capture it.
If the K7 (or whatever) is as much a delight as the K2000, I am already wondering what I will sell to get my hands on one!
Pentax may not be my religion, but it is a huge energizer for both my religion and my lifestyle.
Ned,
Thanks for the post, it is truly refreshing to see into the mind of the guy in charge of any company. You are candid and forthright and I appreciate that.
Personally I love my K200d with BG-3 (Except for the lack of dials on the grip, Grrr!), which seems to get less love on the forums but is a truly wonderful camera. I couldn't care less that it is not FF. I bought it to shoot with until it dies, then I will upgrade to whichever Pentax body fills my needs.
I think you are doing a great job, keep it up!!
Lloyd
Mr. Bunnell,
My name is James Pinsky and I am a military photojournalist stationed in Norfolk, Va.
In addition to my military work, I freelance as well in the Northern Virginia and Norfolk region. I can not be any more well-rounded in my shooting covering everything from sports to news and everything in between.
I recently broke my Pentax ice with a post on the DPreview forum as poster navyphojo.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=31680019
I have always been intrigued by the Pentax community and I would like to know who I can speak with about shooting for Pentax as a photojournalist.
Please take the opportunity to review my latest work here:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=8017
I honestly feel that my experience, talent and personality can help Pentax just that much more.
Thank you for your time.
James Pinsky
jamespinsky@yahoo.com
I've been shooting Pentax for more than thirty years. I've owned two *istDs, a K10D and a K20D. I'm very happy with my DA lenses. I don't really want a full-frame camera at this time, and I'm pleased with the direction in which Pentax appears to be headed.
Paul Stenqist
Hi Ned,
I've been shooting Pentax since the early 1980's as our high school was one of many in Australia that taught photography classes with K1000's.
I don't think the issue at hand is that we "need" a larger sensor, (yes APS-C is fine), but moreso one of choice. Many of us would willingly choose to use our legacy glass on a larger sensor if it were made available. And furthermore, we would also continue to shoot APS-C alongside fullframe. Both formats have advantages which make them a better choice under specific shooting conditions....ahhhhhhh if only we had the choice.
Garry Vogelsang
On a slightly different tac, I rented a DA21 to use with my IstDs and compared it with with the manual focus 24mm A lens that I already own. For my style of shooting, hand held landscape and city scape, there was basically no difference, except for the field of view. This realization saved me a lot of money by not buying another lens. It is possible that given the right conditions and perhaps more megapixels the DA21 would be superior to the 24mm A lens, but my point is for my style of shooting and current camera, I could not see a difference.
In the current frenzy of new models every year, does the average photographer really see a difference in the quality of their output with these new cameras and lenses (no pixel peeping)? Or are we at the good enough stage for most people today?
Very fair and balanced post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Wedding Question?
Adam, saw your question about which lens to use for a wedding. Several wedding forums have hundreds of posts on this topic, but I'll try to keep it simple based on my experience.
Assuming you plan to shoot the entire event from Preparations, Ceremony and Reception, here are the lens that I've typically used with the percentages of shots or time that lens stays on my camera. Only other caveat is I'm referring to current Pentax lenses, but what's most important is noting the range or focal length of the lenses you might need. Also, I thought about these percentages based on fact that I typically will shoot about 1,000 - 1,200 images for an 8 hr wedding and then edit these down to approximately 300 images that are used for designed the album and keepsake books.
16-50mm: 70%
50-135mm: 15%
50 f/1.4: 10% Portraits
10-17mm: 5% Environment, Reception Fun Shots
100mm Macro: 5% Rings, details
Hope this is helpful.
Ned
HDMI... Yippy! I hope its pumping 1080! you should post a teaser video now!
Ned, with your attitude one could associate Pentax as the official camera of FUN.
With your suggestion of capturing edible art I planted a few on Tormato
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3640/3476609781_d17db72b0f_o.jpg
Hi Ned
Many thanks for writing some clear statements in english concerning Pentax's future directions, and also the appeals for 'tolerance' towards those who might sometimes be critical of the company and its commercial decisions. It would be good if Pentax could make more communications in English in the future as otherwise we have to rely on third-party translations from Japanese which may not convey the sense of the prose!
It's surprising to hear that the excellent FA31 might not be capable of performing in a satisfactory fashion on Full-Frame: my SMC-Takumar 50/1.4 does pretty well on my A900 (though I admit it does vignette somewhat at wider apertures) and I would have thought the FA Limiteds should have been at least the equal of the earlier Pentax prime lenses?
If Pentax's DSLR future is APS-C then you realise that you're going to have to capitalise fully on the size advantage that can offer, but I guess Pentax have (finally) heard that message? No more DSLR bricks, please! ;-) Pentax would also do well to fully leverage its legacy lens market by offering full aperture coupling with 'K' and 'M' series lenses IMHO - there was an unfortunate statement by a German product manager a year or so ago to the effect that this would never happen from Pentax, shortly followed by Nikon offering it in their Dx00 range for their older lenses...
Thanks anyway, and respect to you for this blog... particularly having the guts to put that Penn & Teller video about the Patriot Act up during some rather 'dark' times
"Personally, I think we've hit the sweet spot with APS-C sensor cameras today. 12-15 megapixels is more than adequate for even your most demanding assignments, we've got far better control of noise, frame rates and processing speeds are sufficient for the majority of work advanced or serious photographers need and all of this is available at very reasonable price points, regardless of your choice of brand."
Agreed!
I earn a good part of my living with pro photography and I couldn't care less about a FF Pentax DSLR, as it would cost me thousands of dollars in high end lenses, all at the expense of my studio gear.
All I expect from my next DSLR (K-7, that is) is a better AF and better high ISO chroma noise performance.
And I want more weather-resistant lenses!
A new DA17-70mm F/4 WR, DA16-45mm F/4 WR or DA12-24mm F/4 WR would be much more appreciated!
Ned,
Great post and thanks!
I have a K10D, my first dSLR, after shooting many digital P&S's, as well as a Pentax MX for many years going back to the 70's.
I think (from my perspective) the lure of shooting a Pentax dSLR and then having legacy glass has not worked out for me, a serious amature on a budget.
The reason is the multiplication factor for the lenses. Fast glass for an APS-C size sensor is expensive, and I have to use a 28, 35 or 43 mm lens if I want something even close to a 50mm lens. A 50mm FA lens in f2.0 is relatively inexpensive, and would be 75mm on my K10D, but to achieve 50mm and f2,0 with a cropped sensor involves more dollars than I have to spend.
That said, at least for the near future, FF dSLR's are so ridiculously expensive that I could buy several lenses for the cost of one FF body. Does this make sense?
Thanks again, Tony
Hi,
About FF: I was scepsis at first about the smaller frame but for me it works out really well. I'm not a big-bugs spender (I don't become that much of income through fotografpy) and I have some older lenses (without AutoFocus) that I use. normally no problem, but in the edges they are 'not that good'.
That said, with the APS-size: sharp, no problem. But: if I go FF later again, these 'old' film-lenses will not be very effective anymore. By the way, many lenses from the '70- and '80's.
I'd love some more enhancements for the manual-focus though (AF in difficult situations is taking too much time for me) and the coming back of the real use of the old lenses with diafragm.-rings for the lightning-situations.
If another point of interesting is allowed: +2 - -2 is nice but it would be nicer to go further like in the ME-super; +8 is sometimes very handy in difficult situations without having to choose manual-lightning.
ciau from NL
I think Pentax is wrong, if you have not shot full frame, you don't know what your missing, this sounds similer to what Nikonians where saying before they got Full frame. Canon came out with full frame before digital glass, why can't Pentax.Give me a break, I shot Pentax in the film days, I know they have good glass.
Ross
Hi,
> I think Pentax is wrong, if you have not shot full frame, you don't know
> what your missing, this sounds similer to what Nikonians where saying before
> they got Full frame. Canon came out with full frame before digital glass,
> why can't Pentax.Give me a break, I shot Pentax in the film days, I know
> they have good glass.
> Ross
I always have shot Pentax, whole my life. That is also full frame untill nowadays.
the point is that you get a better quality for sure if you buy good, new glass for the digital system but with the old glass I own the quality on digital is just worse.
Many, many people have bought new glass after going digital, many times also because they had to since the old (1960's / 1970's) glass is not fitting on their new digital system.
but, it is a good thing that you could choose for full frame; I just don't need it.
Elvin
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